Sunday, 22 February 2009

Conversation in Schola's Chatroom

Guillermo CelestinoLatinitas omnia potest!

3:51pmIrisatusIta! revera puto latinam linguam internationales esse

3:51pmGuillermo CelestinoGratulor quod linguam tam dissimilem tuae didicisti!

3:52pmGuillermo Celestino(nobis est facilius Latino studere, nam lingua nostra ex ea venit)

3:52pmIrisatusuum. egomet nescio cur hanc linguam didicerim...

3:53pmGuillermo CelestinoPlaceret aliquando studere Linguae Iaponicae.

3:53pmIrisatusbene! sed scritura japonicae daemonica est...

3:54pmIrisatuset nobis saepe non recte scribere non possum

3:54pmGuillermo Celestinooh!

3:56pmIrisatussed conjugationes multo faciliores esse puto

3:56pmIrisatusquam francogallica vel hispanica

3:56pmGuillermo Celestinoidem audivi.

3:57pmGuillermo CelestinoFacilis igitur ad loquendum, sed difficillima ad scribendum lingua vestra est.

3:58pmIrisatusIta! At, multi sint in Argentina qui latinam linguam discant?

3:59pmGuillermo CelestinoNon multi, sed plurimos esse quam in Iaponia puto.

4:00pmIrisatusHic, nnumerosi sint qui incipiant studium, sed parvi sint qui finiverunt

4:01pmGuillermo CelestinoEt ubi docent linguam Latinam in Iaponia?

4:01pmIrisatusfortasse in quasi omnibus universitatibus nationalibus

4:02pmGuillermo CelestinoIncredibile.

4:02pmIrisatussed si velis litterae classicae studiare

4:03pmIrisatustantummodo in tribus universitatibus id facere potest

4:03pmGuillermo Celestinooh!, tres non sunt paucae!

4:03pmIrisatusvero?

4:03pmGuillermo CelestinoIn urbe mea, non sunt litterae classicae!

4:04pmIrisatusUbi habites?

4:05pmGuillermo CelestinoNomen urbis meae traduci "Mare Argenteum" in Latinum potest.

4:05pmGuillermo CelestinoHispanice "Mar del Plata"

4:05pmIrisatuspulchrrimum nomen!

4:05pmGuillermo Celestinogratias

4:05pmIrisatusego Yokohamae habito

4:06pmIrisatus"litus taraversum(?) "in latinam convertere possit

4:06pmIrisatustraversum

4:07pmGuillermo CelestinoCur Iaponenses, qui incredibilem culturam habent, litteris occidentalibus volunt?

4:08pmIrisatusum fortasse Japonia civitas insularia est

4:08pmIrisatuset civilitas serica longe abest

4:09pmIrisatusita, semper omnes res peregirinas amamus

4:10pmIrisatusrecte "civilitate serica abest"

4:11pmGuillermo CelestinoPlacentne latrunculi Iaponenses, sive "shogi"?

4:11pmIrisatusmihi non placet...

4:11pmIrisatusquia non possum strategiam memorare....

4:12pmIrisatusdifficilior quam latina lingua mihi est

4:13pmIrisatusex te neniam peto sed nunc ad lectum eo

4:13pmGuillermo CelestinoEgo lusus latrunculorum occidentalium sum, sed aliquando lusi Iaponenses et praecipue Cinenses interretialiter.

4:14pmIrisatusbene!

4:14pmGuillermo CelestinoBene dormias, Irisate!

4:14pmIrisatusvale!

4:14pmGuillermo Celestinovale quam optime et valeant Argentina Iaponiaque!

Latinum's Latin Links

Latin Links

  This is not going to be your typical links page, but more of a combination of links and short reviews of various Latin educational sites I've stumbled across in my online perambulations. 

Of use to a learner of spoken Latin, is the  Latin video site started up in March 2008 at the University of Kentucky. Here you can watch snippets of conversation in spoken Latin. If you have reached around lesson 40 in Adler, you should be able to get the gist of what is being said pretty well. This site is constantly being added to, and should prove very useful to users of Latinum. The main differences you will note is that some speakers are not clear with vowel quantity in their spoken Latin, others are excellent, and the circumflex accent (rising and falling tone on a long penultimate) that I use in Latinum, is not used by these speakers, so their Latin sounds 'flatter'. These speakers represent the best speakers presently on the planet, so you can assess your own progress against these speakers.  There are at present only a handful of people on earth who can speak as fluently as Terentius or Milena. With over 3 000 regular users of the Latinum podcast as of 2008, this situation will hopefully change over the next few years, as users of the podcast aquire familiarity with the spoken language.

 One advantage, to my mind, of using correct vowel length (and the circumflex) is that it gives you time to slow down, and draw out a word when you need time to think, so that your speech becomes more flowing. 


Textkit has a lively forum, most of the posting is in English, some posters use Latin. Textkit is the effective  'user form' for the Latinum podcast, for when you have a grammar question.  Eclassics is a new and fast growing site, where you can set up a user profile with a photo or avatar, keep a blog, and in addition share videos and photos with other students and teachers of Latin. The site is growing fast. I'm a member! Please do join

Looking around online, I have found almost no-where where it is comfortable to write publicly in Latin, without the fear that someone will come along and correct you. This fear of being corrected, and indeed, being corrected, is, I think, counterproductive when learning a language. One has to produce it, lots of it. errors resolve themselves through further study and reading. Given the numbers of people studying Latin around the world, there is a paucity of writing in Latin itself.  Schola provides a space where all the writing must be in Latin, and where correcting or commenting on other member's Latin is prohibited. 

Radiophonica Finnica had the most  active Latin language forum on the internet before Schola came along, it is called Colloquia Latina. There is also an active Latin language discussion forum on Google groups.  There is another active Latin Forum, with a different group of users to the textkit crowd, called Latin Forum. Another Forum, only in Latin, is Fora Latina. For non English speakers, (French/Spanish/German etc) the Latin Forum on Wordreference might be of more  interest. Germans can chat about Latin on the Latein Forum. Polish people can chat on their own Forum Latinum.   If you want to try and write to someone in Latin on paper, then the Commericum Epistularum Latinumcan set you up with a penpal.

For those interested in Spoken Latin, Johan Winge maintains possibly the best set of links for this topic, besides also offering some of his own recordings of Classical Texts read in very accurate restored classical Latin. Johan also has a presence on YouTube, and you can watch him declaiming Vergil.  L. Amadevs Ranierivs has his own site in Latin, with a small but growing collection of recordings. It is good to see the sudden growth in the amount of high quality audio Latin online. His is a nice, well designed website. Well worth a look around.Seumas MacDonald's Lingua Latina et Graeca  is another new podcast based site, that contains useful material for learning Greek, using Kendrick's Ollendorff text - i.e. using the same methodology used by Adler. Well worth a visit. Seumas has also started to develop his own Latin learning textbook, with accompanying mp3 files, which is published on the same site. Vox Romana is a relatively new Latin podcast, very well worth visiting and listening to, a sort of Ancient Roman Variety Show.


Williams  wrote a handy vocabulary list for spoken Latin, arranged by topic. This is a bit old (1829), so many of the words describe professions we no longer have - however, these old words are still useful for talking or writing about historical matters and times past. There are lists of clothing, body parts, metals, professions, etc. Much is very useful and practical. 

If you are looking for things to read then  bibliography of over 26, 000  online texts in Latin written since the Renaissance, may be of interest. 
Birmingham University hosts a collection of neo-Latin texts written in England. 
The Bibliotheca Augustana is also well worth a visit.
Camena at Mannheim University also hosts a collection of texts in Neo-Latin, as does the Heinsius Collection in the Netherlands. Work is now underway to put together a list of Latin authors who were active in Ireland. The Latin Library also hosts a selection of Neo_Latin texts to read. A selection of neo-Latin works published in Italy can be found at a site run by four Italian Universities. The Society of Neo-Latin scholars also has a website.
New as of February 2009, is the Catalogue of Mediaeval Digitised Manuscripts. 
A growing number of these are being digitised, and placed online. Many have not been published. As time goes on this will doubtless grow into an enormous resource, wherre the edicated amateur latinist would be in a position to actually make a contribution to scholarship.

 Imaginum Vocabularium Latinum has a growing repository of over 3000 pictures matched to Latin Vocabulary, with no intermediary language, just the image and the Latin word for it. Suitable for Children.  Sigrid Albert wrote a dictionary "Imaginum Vocabularium Latinum" with the same title, published in 1998, which can be obtained directly from the publisher. It costs around 17 Euro, and this is a very useful text. You can't get it on Amazon etc, only from here. I highly recommend it. If flashcards work for you, then the online Latin flashcards made by Bob Patrick are where you should head to. The  Thesaurus Eroticus Linguae Latinae has words not found elsewhere.   I think the idea of learning a language to the extent possible without the intermediary of another language is useful....which is what the imaginum vocabularium is all about.  Diederich's work on the frequency of words in Latin is useful.


  
John Piazza's website is always an inspiration. John is working with Bob Patrick, another teacher who uses spoken Latin intensively in his classroom, on  materials to help with the study of Latin as a living, breathing language.   If you ever wanted to type in Latin, using macrons and other specialised characters used by the Romans, the  list of unicode codes for the various marks is useful, and can be found in this list complied by David Perry. A useful site for teachers and students is the elatin  site where I keep a blog. There is a useful collection of learning materials at Saint Louis University. This site was built up by Claude Pavur. Claude's reading accelerating machine is something worth trying out sometime. Claude also has some entertaining flash animations for teaching grammatical concepts, and a selection of mp3 readings from Seneca. A site close to my heart is this one - a program to introduce Latin to inner London schools

    Scrinium Latinum is one of the best sites in English about Latin. I have personally been influenced in my approach to Latin study by the essays on this site, written by Dr Harris, Emeritus Professor of Classics at Middlebury. The collection of Latin plays written by Anthony Hodson is really special. Visit this site, read the plays. Enjoy. There  is a very interesting video, produced in 2007, on the Latin Immersion programme at Lexington. This programme has also acted as an inspiration for developing the immersion methodology used on the Latinum Podcast. While I'm on the topic of educational institutions, the Classical Journal has a pretty good list of places where you can go and take a degree in classics.

Latinum’s Comenius Project

Latinum’s Comenius Project

"A Rosetta Stone for Unlocking the Latin Tongue"

Project Outline August 2008

 

John Amos Comenius  ( March 28, 1592 – November 15, 1670)  was a European Educator from Moravia, who wrote an important series of school textbooks for learning Latin. These were textbooks covering the complete curriculum, as he devised it. The textbooks were written in Latin, and come in a gradated series. The aim of these textbooks was to get the students to become fluent in Latin, as school was taught in Latin - but the textbooks were not all LATIN textbooks, but general schoolbooks, covering the subjects we now recognise as history, politics, the sciences, &c. The goal of learning Latin was combined with general scholarship, so the reader was not just learning the language, but useful information about the world as well, at the same time.

As such, these books are of enormous utility to the student of Latin, as they cover areas of knowledge with which we are somewhat familiar, and they provide a wealth of vocabulary, and knowledge about real things in the world – while at the same time giving us an insight into the mindset of the Renaissance, in a manner that no amount of academic study can give us – for by studying the course outlined by these textbooks, we become one of Comenius’ students, and are transported back in time. At the same time, we build up and strengthen our Latin.

Comenius' textbooks were very famous, and some editions remained in active classroom use until the early 1800's. Most editions are bilingual (Latin plus some other European language, including Hebrew and Classical Greek), some are trilingual or more, with the text running in parallel columns -  such a text is a veritable Rosetta Stone for learning Latin. One of the online texts you can access has parallel translations in German, Polish, French, and Czech.

 The Magna Didactica 

LEVEL ONE
Orbis Sensualim Pictus 

 

The first text Latinum will present will be  Comenius’ Orbis Sensualim Pictus.
We will use the first American edition, in English and Latin, as this is available on Google Books. The book can be purchased as a reprint.
  Versions:
Orbis Sensualim Pictus - Anglice - Latine. (1810)  on Latinum in audio

Orbis Sensualim Pictus - Anglice - Latine - newer imprint of above text. on Latinum in audio

Orbis Pictus   Die Weldt in Bildern, Swet w Obrazych, Swiat w Obrazach, Le Monde en Tableaux. (1833)

Variant Text:
Nouveau Orbis Pictus - Germanice - Latine - Francogallice (1832)

This book is Comenius' foundation textbook, and it covers in a very basic format, all the main areas of knowledge as they were understood in the seventeenth century – biology, physics, geometry, trades, philosophy, music, recreation, law, politics, etc. This book was written for six to seven year olds, but it serves quite well for adults as well, although each topic is of course only treated in the barest of outlines. 

Each lesson is an ‘object lesson’, and all the words given are illustrated in drawings that accompany the lesson, aiding in memory and understanding. The lessons are interesting historically, as they describe the processes of long extinct trades, adding to your store of Latin words related to everyday life.
 

In order to progress to Comenius’ higher level textbooks, it is necessary to master the vocabulary in the Orbis Pictus – and going through the book seven or eight times will be necessary – possibly more. The Orbis will give you a vocabulary of a few thousand words.

 

LEVEL TWO
The Vestibulum

 

The next text in Comenius’ series is the Vestibulum to the Janua Linguarum. This is a simple text, of a slightly higher level than the Orbis Sensualim Pictus. Comenius also wrote an essential introduction to Latin Grammar, to accompany it. He wrote two versions of the vestibulum, both of which are useful texts. Two versions of this text are in the Opera Didactica Omnia.
Versions:

Vestibulum in usum illustris paedagogei Albensis

Vestibulum ( Latine - Hungarice )

Vestibulum Majus.(Latine-Germanice)  on Latinum in audio

LEVEL THREE

 I will use 1796 text of Johann Georg Lederer: Der Kleine Lateiner, for level 3. This text follows the outline of the Orbis Pictus very closely, while introducing some material some material from the Janua, and thus serves admirably as the ‘next step up’. This text is in German and Latin, but is similar enough to the Orbis for a beginner to assimilate after studying the Orbis.


Comenius' Latin-Latin dictionary.

This dictionary was especially written for the vocabulary contained in the Janua and the Atrium. There are two editions, one for the Janua, one, more advanced, for the Atrium. The Lexicon Januale is in the  Opera Didactica Omnia.
Several Editions of the Lexicon Atriale  will be appearing on Google. The first one to appear online, is, unfortunately, a poor scan, with the edges of many pages sliced off.  It, is, however, still very useful. Laura Gibbs has started a project to transcribe the dictionary, to create an online, fully searchable text. several people are already contributing. This is a very important project, as no 'pocket' Latin-Latin dictionary is available, either in print, or online, apart from this scan. As part of your Latin studies, I urge you to contribute, and help transcribe a few pages, lines, even one entry, of this dictionary. Every little will help to get this up and online as soon as possible. 

LEVEL FOUR 
The Janua

The Janua Linguarum Reserata Aurea uses the same chapter outlines as the Orbis Sensualim Pictus, but the material is fleshed out in much more detail. The text, reprinted so often, comes in several verrsions, as Comenius composed variant texts, and the editions from different places and times have important differences, but they all follow the same chapter structure. 

Versions:

Latin, French, Dutch 

Latin, Classical Greek, French

Latin and Classical Greek ed. Theodoro Simonio
 
Latin, German Italian and French. 

Latin, German, French, Italian ed. Duez.

French-Latin 

 Copies of the Janua Linguarum can also be viewed as scans at the Comenius Library in Japan. (Before the first google editions appeared in late 2008, this was the only way to view these texts).

This text with its parallel translations is a veritable Rosetta Stone for unlocking the Latin language. I will be using the critical edition of the Janua. The earlier editions of the Janua are simpler than later editions, so I may present this text in two versions, a lower level and higher level version.

Comenius also wrote an intermediate Latin Grammar, composed in accessible Latin, for students of the Janua Reserata. This material is now available online in the Two versions of this text are in the Opera Didactica Omnia.


LEVEL FIVE
Schola Ludus

This section will be the Schola Ludus, where the material of the Janua Linguarum Reserata is presented in short dialogues and ‘plays’ – although these are not dramatic plays, but rather expositions, using conversation.I will use the critical edition of the Schola Ludus. The colloquies in the Schola Ludus develop the educational themes in the Janua in more depth. This text is available online as individual photographs of the pages, and can be found listed here. 
Schoal Ludus also exists in the Opera Didactica Omnia.
  


LEVEL SIX

A text composed of 700 sentences, all in alliteration, for ease of memorisation, called 
" Vestibuli Lat. Lingvae Auctarium". This text is also avaiable in the 
 Opera Didactica Omnia.


  LEVEL SEVEN
Atrium

The Atrium. The atrium contains Comenius' Higher level Grammar, and advanced philosophical discussions of the material initially introduced in the Vestubulum and the Janua. See the  Opera Didactica Omnia.

LEVEL EIGHT
Latin authors in the original. 

Comenius thought a student should not open any works of original Latin literature, until fluency had been developed. He estimated this would take three years, if conducted FULL TIME in a school only following his curriculum.  Part time, you are looking at six - ten years to attain the level of fluency that Comenius would have expected from his students.

From Compliant Subversity Blog

Comenius' Latino-Latinum Lexicon Atriale: A Wiki that works

I came back from the first half of my January holidays to discover that a remarkable Latin project has taken off. Evan Millner, who is simply prolific in providing internet resources for Latin learners, made us all aware of a digital scan of Comenius' 17th century Latin-Latin lexicon. Laura Gibbs immediately pointed out that a searchable version would be far more useful, and started a wiki, which now is up to the letter D, as contributors transcribe, format, and proof the scanned pages. I can't begin to tell you how useful a Latin-Latin dictionary is, suffice to say I'm overjoyed at the work being done. But it's also a great example of how a wiki can work - small, chunkeable sizes of work, divided among volunteers, contributing to a great resource.

You don't really even need any Latin to get into the Comenius' project, just a careful eye.
Go and make a contribution today: Comenius' lexicon project

Monday, 26 January 2009

Anniversarii

Latinum ( a simple google search for 'latinum' or 'latin podcast' will find it at the top of the list )  is approaching its second anniversary. The entire Adler course is almost all online - all 97 lessons of it, offering several hundred hours of structured Latin tuition.

In addition, Latinum offers a growing selection of Latin readings, and a huge vocabulary learning resource, neo-Latin colloquia, and resources specifically targetted at GCSE.

Over 3 300 000 ( 3 million three hundred thousand) individual audio episodes have been downloaded from Latinum so far, rather a lot of Latin.

Schola on http://schola.ning.com has its first anniversary at the end of the month, with over 780 members. People join every day. Schola now has a real time chatroom, which gets busy every day, with people forming friendships with others who have only Latin as a shared language of communication.
Schola also offers blog posts, a forum, Latin videos, and a huge photolexicon with over 3 500 labelled images.

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